Elementary English School Education

[gerard 6]

What do you think of it???

(Yeah, I know. -My theads are lame, but this one's gonna fly, BABY!!!)

[bushpig 0]

...

[veronica 2]

Do they teach English in elementary schools here?

[thursday 1]

great thread

[mellow-mite 0]

I think it's rubbish.

[gerard 6]

Now, the vast majorty of public schools have occasional English classes which are usually taught by JET ALTs. A minority of schools have English classes on a weekly basis. These classes fall under the subject sogogakushu - integrated studies. The goals of the class are not well defined but the Board of Ed has been encouraging 'communication' rather than acquisition of skills such as phonics/reading. Elementary English education will officially become a 'subject area' ('ryouiki') for grade five and six students from 2011, with pressure to test drive the new system from 2009. Grade 5 and 6 students will get English classes (actually, 'foreign language classes') once a week. The goals will remain communicative and cultural rather than skill based. The board will publish a 'guidebook' for teachers but it looks unlikely that students will be given a textbook and there will be no testing (officially).

 

That's the situation at public schools. The private sector is another story and most students study English in some capacity at some point in their elementary school days. The whole elementary school English Ed thing is BIG in Japan right now and being hotly debated from many perspectives by Japanese, while it's mainly the foreigners who are actually doing the teaching, certainly in the public sector. Actually, I heard someone say that the people on the front line -ALTs and Japanese homeroom teachers - are like soldiers in an illplanned war that they don't understand. They're thrown into the classroom and told to teach English without knowing the goals and issues and without being properly equipped to do their jobs.

 

There are tons of issues... like

-Who should teach it

-What should be taught

-The public vs. private sector

-Not falling behind Asian neighbours

-Xenophobic reactions against English education in general but particularly E.S. english ed.

etc etc

 

Take your pick. Anyone got any interesting perspectives on the subject?

[HelperElfMissy 42]

My 10yr old is starting compulsory language next year and he has a choice of 3 languages - his pick - Japanese of course!

 

We have hosted 2 Japanese Exchange Students from our school's brother school. One boy has outstanding English and really jumped into his Aussie Experience. The other had next to no English, I had to rely on my older boys for communication, but even then he was very withdrawn - I struggled thinking he might not be enjoying himself enough, but he read a prepared speech in English when he left which was very eloquent and apparently he had a blast (just a party on the inside kinda guy!)

 

Yeah - great - have English in J Schools, but we also need to teach Asian languages more than the old French, German and Italian standard in our schools. And what about the USA? Do they have compulsory LOTE (Language Other than English)?

[samurai 0]

According to the JET website, only 28% of English teachers chose "teaching" as their primary motive for coming to Japan. The other 72% chose things like; wanted to travel, wanted to gain international work experience, wanted a job, had a previous interest in Japan, etc.

 

Not many JETs have a desire to teach or even have any training for that matter. A degree in education is not required. Take that into account with how different many of us foreigners consider our discourse styles to be in comparison to Japanese. Think- the Japanese non-linear/empathetic vs. English's linear/logical approach towards solving communication hurdles. Now… how much of a factor does discourse-style play into curriculum design?

 

Perhaps the above stats and ideologies will help explain the bomb I am about to drop on all English teachers who are a part of this thread:

 

According to the Japanese Ministry of Education, only 34% of JHS students finish JH with a satisfactory oral proficiency in introductions and greetings; ie- good morning. And- only 27% of HS students graduate with a satisfactory oral proficiency in everyday topics; ie- what did you do yesterday?

 

I think it's sad that this country would assume that its foreign ESL teachers know how to best provide an English education to children that few have any desire to teach in the first place. Then- put them in charge of the curriculum as if they have a clue of how to apply that curriculum.

 

If there are some of you out there that take pride in your job, understand that you and I are exceptionally rare. And quite frankly, if I were the head of any school, I would realize that there is zero benefit to hiring a non-trained teacher who falls into that 72 percentile who didn't choose "teaching" as their primary reason for coming to Japan and taking the job I offered them. I’d rather just hire a JTE with qualifications.

 

(if it's not obvious yet, I don't think the jet programme works. However, what I’m doing about it is trade-secrets.)

[jared 0]

I disagree.

There are not too many people on earth who choose to do a job because they want to see that job done. I dont wake up in the morning and leap out of bed because land needs subdividing and I'm just the man for the job! I go to work to get money. If I'm good at my job then I will be likely get more money in the future. I dont have to make my sole life objective Surveying to be good at it. Why cant teachers be the same?

 

That said, in a regular job if you are useless you will be trained or fired - Jets are pretty much unfireable and sometimes (often?) take advantage of that. Would it help if Schools had the authority to hire and fire their own ALT's?

[samurai 0]

 Originally Posted By: Captain Stag

I disagree.
There are not too many people on earth who choose to do a job because they want to see that job done.

Again, I wouldn't hire you.

 Originally Posted By: Captain Stag

I dont wake up in the morning and leap out of bed because land needs subdividing and I'm just the man for the job! I go to work to get money. If I'm good at my job then I will be likely get more money in the future. I dont have to make my sole life objective Surveying to be good at it. Why cant teachers be the same?

don't forget we're talking about hiring foreign english teachers.
See the statistics above, they're failing. Is a 27-34% proficiency in students acceptable? I don't think so. Why hire those same teachers again? They're not providing anything substantial, are they? The Ministry asks some very basic requirements. And, they're not being met.

 Originally Posted By: Captain Stag

That said, in a regular job if you are useless you will be trained or fired - Jets are pretty much unfireable and sometimes (often?) take advantage of that. Would it help if Schools had the authority to hire and fire their own ALT's?

Well, first they should train. But they don't. Can any teacher here provide us with some insight as to any trianing you received after you were hired?

[Tubby Beaver 209]

I am an Elementary ALT, I work in 3 schools throughout the week and teach on average 3 classes a day but sometimes I do 4 (I know, what a hard life ) Basically we play games all class, with some form of English skit thrown in, I play loadsa games that I remember from my childhood and simply build the language into the game. This is the first year that Yokohama has had it across the board in Elementary schools and as a result there isn't an official curricullum as such. I came up with my own stuff for one school, another had been given a curricullum that a previous ALT at a Yokohama school had come up with along with Teaching plans, I use this as a base and then adjust it for my own means. Its true that the emphasis is on having fun and communication as opposed to strict learning outcomes. TBH I think that its a pretty good idea, what with the way that kids get pummelled with work once they get to JHS and HS, so if they have fun with english in the first place it might just convince them to pursue it through the boredom and pain of JHS and HS cramming. I love my job, its fun, the kids are great, I get to wear what I like, shorts and t-shirts in summer and I'm finished for usually 3pm. If only the wages were better!!

[samurai 0]

 Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver

I am an Elementary ALT, I work in 3 schools throughout the week and teach on average 3 classes a day but sometimes I do 4 (I know, what a hard life ) Basically we play games all class, with some form of English skit thrown in, I play loadsa games that I remember from my childhood and simply build the language into the game. This is the first year that Yokohama has had it across the board in Elementary schools and as a result there isn't an official curricullum as such. I came up with my own stuff for one school, another had been given a curricullum that a previous ALT at a Yokohama school had come up with along with Teaching plans, I use this as a base and then adjust it for my own means. Its true that the emphasis is on having fun and communication as opposed to strict learning outcomes. TBH I think that its a pretty good idea, what with the way that kids get pummelled with work once they get to JHS and HS, so if they have fun with english in the first place it might just convince them to pursue it through the boredom and pain of JHS and HS cramming. I love my job, its fun, the kids are great, I get to wear what I like, shorts and t-shirts in summer and I'm finished for usually 3pm. If only the wages were better!!

And... if only more students could actually speak english according to the Japanese Ministry of Education's goals.

I don't disagree with anything above. It should be fun. But is that the point? "let's go be examples of games in english to students." to misquote you in my own language.

Why do I (as the ministry of education in Japan) need you?

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Did I set the goals?? I answered an ad that asked for this type of approach, if we aren't meeting goals set by the Ministry of education then they are asleep at the wheel and should be fired for allowing companies such as mine to teach what they consider to be sub-standard english. They should enforce the goals that they come up with instead of complaining that no one is meeting their goals, they ARE the Ministry of Education for Japan after all

[samurai 0]

 Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver

Did I set the goals?? I answered an ad that asked for this type of approach, if we aren't meeting goals set by the Ministry of education then they are asleep at the wheel and should be fired for allowing companies such as mine to teach what they consider to be sub-standard english. They should enforce the goals that they come up with instead of complaining that no one is meeting their goals, they ARE the Ministry of Education for Japan after all

Dude, you just burned yourself. You just provided zero reason to hire your company again.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

I am not arguing for you to hire me or not, I don't need to justify myself to anyone. I'm not in the management of the company or in the position where I can make changes to policy. I have been hired to do a job a certain way because thats what the Board of Education has said it wants it to be, if that is contrary to what their bosses in the Ministry of Education are saying then thats their fault, not mine. Like I said, why are these people still in positions of policy making if they are allowing these policies to be re-written?

[samurai 0]

 Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver

I am not arguing for you to hire me or not, I don't need to justify myself to anyone. I'm not in the management of the company or in the position where I can make changes to policy. I have been hired to do a job a certain way because thats what the Board of Education has said it wants it to be, if that is contrary to what their bosses in the Ministry of Education are saying then thats their fault, not mine. Like I said, why are these people still in positions of policy making if they are allowing these policies to be re-written?

The policies are being rewritten. That's the point. And I know you aren't personally arguing for me (posthumously) to hire you. I'm just using you as a foundation to making the point that foreigners are rarely needed. No offense. but, I'm there too, and I see it, and I'm changing it, with them.

If you (not just tubbybeaver, but any foreign teacher) think your future is secure, just know that things are changing. The Jet programme is going to die (or at least go through major restructuring). And with it... so will that philosophy.

(again, we're treading trade-secrets)

[Tubby Beaver 209]

1./ I'm not on the JET programme

 

2./ I would be more than happy to change and grow as a teacher, sometimes I feel too much like an entertainer. there are only so many times that you can play Simon Says before you wanna take your own life!!

 

3./ this is not my first teaching gig, both here and in my home country, so I feel I am slightly different to the regular English teacher who comes over here.

 

4./ I agree that there should be concrete learning outcomes AND a proper curricullum with proper equipment and facilities.

 

BUT I still stand by what I said that I simply answered an ad and they told me the way they were wanting it to pan out. The problem with being an underling is that you have no control over policy even although its you who are in the trenches for better or worse working within the guidelines given.

 

If you are re-designing the whole shebang, then great, bring it on. Just make sure you don't let them hammer all the fun out of learning as has happened at JHS and HS.

[gerard 6]

I think Samurai's talking about the old native vs. non-native English speaking teacher debate and in the case of the JET program, the natives are rarely trained or experienced. A lot of smart people, both Japanese and foreign are very much against the JET program. JET comes from a complicated set of motives and is managed by three different ministries, the main player being the ministry of home affairs (jichisho) underwhich 'CLAIR' falls. What does jichisho have to do with education? -you may ask. Not much. Except that they're in charge of the JET program. There're plenty of great ALTs but there's plenty of reason to slam JET too. Anyway, I think elementary ALTs have got the toughest job going and now they're increasingly putting fresh first-year JETs in elementary schools, often on 'one-shot' post. Sounds like you've got it down, TB. Good on you.

...

>4./ I agree that there should be concrete learning outcomes AND a proper curriculum with proper equipment and facilities.

 

You're not going to see much progress in this respect until well after 2011.

[gerard 6]

Actually, I spent the weekend getting information about the goals (or lack thereof) of the new curriculum. I was too busy to digest what's going to happen at the time. Then, I was in an elementary school today and I heard kids reading English sentences in katakana and it pissed me off. Among other things, from 2011 they still want teachers to avoid teaching reading, or even phonics. They have their reasons for moving so slowly, but it still seems quite unsatisfactory to me. Meanwhile, the private sector and jukus are rocketing ahead.

[jared 0]

Samurai - If you were independently wealthy and didn't need to work to live would you teach English at a Japanese Primary School?

 

 

It's not a loaded question and I'm not trying to prove anything I'm just curious.

[samurai 0]

 Originally Posted By: Captain Stag

Samurai - If you were independently wealthy and didn't need to work to live would you teach English at a Japanese Primary School?


It's not a loaded question and I'm not trying to prove anything I'm just curious.

Yes, but I would have built it... amongst others.

Building schools is actually a dream of mine. Not so I can run my own business and live the dream, but so I can provide international educations to our youth in an attempt to bridge the culture gap relevant to the lack of world peace existent today.

Sounds pretty cliche, but I'm dead serious. I'm already investing an equivalent to my current year's salary. Quite the plunge, really. So to take your question (albeit a very good one, btw) a bit further, I just flipped it. Not only am I not independently wealthy, but I'm willing to double my existing debt to study ways to reconstruct what I see as a failing system. If it brings students together from around the world, then I will have succeeded.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

I sure as hell wouldn't. If I didn't need to work then I wouldn't. However I do need to and will continue for the forseeable future.

 

I had a bit of a think about our discussion and I stand by what I have said before but would like to add that for Elementary kids I think that the game system is a great way for them to learn. If its structured properly kids will learn much quicker as they will be unaware that they are learning. Getting kids up and moving around while learning greatly increases their ability to retain new information. Having them sitting at desks and reapeating ad nauseum from a book or directly from a teacher will not help them to increase their english ability.

 

After all when you were a kid, you didn't learn to play football (or your fave sport) by having intensive coaching sessions. You simply learned by doing, then that planted the seed and if you were so inclined then you could pursue this goal and develop it by taking professional coaching later in life. I feel the same could be said about english in Elementary schools. Teach them the basics BUT in a fun and energetic manner, then when their interest is piqued, they will hopefully apply themselves more when the harder study comes along.

 

It may be true that the juku's are streaking ahead of public schools, but as they aren't in direct competition with each other then nothing will change quickly. If the parents on the other hand become unhappy and instigate change then the government will listen and act faster (perhaps).

[samurai 0]

 Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver

I sure as hell wouldn't. If I didn't need to work then I wouldn't. However I do need to and will continue for the forseeable future.

I had a bit of a think about our discussion and I stand by what I have said before but would like to add that for Elementary kids I think that the game system is a great way for them to learn. If its structured properly kids will learn much quicker as they will be unaware that they are learning. Getting kids up and moving around while learning greatly increases their ability to retain new information. Having them sitting at desks and reapeating ad nauseum from a book or directly from a teacher will not help them to increase their english ability.

After all when you were a kid, you didn't learn to play football (or your fave sport) by having intensive coaching sessions. You simply learned by doing, then that planted the seed and if you were so inclined then you could pursue this goal and develop it by taking professional coaching later in life. I feel the same could be said about english in Elementary schools. Teach them the basics BUT in a fun and energetic manner, then when their interest is piqued, they will hopefully apply themselves more when the harder study comes along.

It may be true that the juku's are streaking ahead of public schools, but as they aren't in direct competition with each other then nothing will change quickly. If the parents on the other hand become unhappy and instigate change then the government will listen and act faster (perhaps).

You're preaching constructivism. It's a learning theory. You get it, but you didn't know there is actually a term for it.

I agree with everything you just said. And, I'll further iterate my point... foreign teachers are not needed for those objectives.

On a personal note, and not one of attack, I ask you (out of purely self-reflective purposes)...

What separates you, tubbybeaver? What are you providing to the students that they can't get from local teachers?

Again, I'm not f*ing with you. I just haven't heard the answer yet.

(however, it should be noted that I've already assembled an answer to that question that goes around ALTs.)

[Tubby Beaver 209]

I know that there was a term (I just didn't know it), and I know what your driving at. Its true that J-teachers could fill the role of an ALT if they were trained properly, however they are not. So until that happens I offer native pronunciation with a working knowledge of how to teach English, specifically to younger children. The teachers at my schools were visibly scared when they thot that they had to design the course. Again, I don't think the system that I work within just now is the best but I make the best of it I can. I believe that i am doing a good job within the parameters and I'm always on the look out to develop my skills further. The problem right now is inconsistency across the board, due in part to your point of inexperienced teachers, no set curricullum and what seems like dissension among the various levels of government.

 

To go back to my 1st post and my comment about the wages, if they want a better standard of applicants (at least until the J-revolution) then they will have to improve wages. The old adage about peanuts and monkeys is a good one

[samurai 0]

You're right... nobody is paid enough.

 

And... they aren't trained properly. Nor are any of us. (Let's get real about that statement.)

 

peanuts and monkeys... huh. As the leader of any country's public education, I could easily justify doing away with both.

 

I know you offer native pronunciation... but I don't need ALTs for that. No disrespect. That's just the foundation to the curriculum that I'm designing. I honestly don't need teachers to provide that.

 

"A working knowledge of how to teach English." Do you mean- to foreingers? To the Japanese lexia? To who (or, more specifically, which language) are you trained to teach English? And- what "working knowledge" are you as a foreigner providing that wasn't existant before your arrival?

 

You have to forgive my tone... I just don't see the system working. But, I'm willing to hear why others do see it working. And, I appreciate that this conversation has not turned into a flame war.