AET's

[bobby12 0]

Someone mentioned that JET should be more directed at EHS.

 

Well, that is the direction the program is going. When I came last year there were a record number of AETs put into EHS. This year it was the same. Now it is also possible to stay for a 4th year on JET, provided you go to an EHS in your 4th year. So they are getting that message.

 

After school I sometimes hold free converstaion groups with students interested in gaikoku or who want to study abroad. I have travelled a lot and try to tell the kids about other cultures in my classes. The kids get to hear the correct pronunciation of words, rather than the JTEs garbled attempts. So, I think my presence as a JET is a positive one and I support the JET program.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

Ocean,

 

So we should just leave the test alone, let the students to continue studying passively for all subjects, let them neglect to think for themselves, and never be able to speak English.

 

The teachers in this country half the time are the problem. You pointed out (I think it was you) that all the teachers should go to a foreign country to strengthen their English skills. That is ideal. And, instead of the JET programme all that money could be used for such a cause. A majority of Japanese English teachers have poor pronunciation, half-decent grammar, and have a hard time trying to carryon a conversation with a foreign teacher unless he or she speaks like they do with the students. People like that have no business teaching.

 

CIR - I would say that they would be better qualified to teach English to students than an AET. But, I think Oceans view of an AET is theyre just puppets and have no real control or value in class and work when called upon to do so. If thats the case, then I agree. Theres no way in hell I would ever be an AET like that... could never find any job satisfaction being a puppet.

[miteyak 0]

No time for an essay right now, but there's little to suggest that JETS, AETS, etc. are any more than lip service to improve English speaking in Japan, along with lots of other language initiatives currently being put in motion. Like corporate re-structuring, here they like to patch up the old rather than strip down and start again.

 

Japan probably spends more money on English than any other country in the world, but gets the least results. My students in Pakistan, Nepal and Egypt were all higher level than their equivalents here! That's not unfortunate, that's abysmal.

 

JETs are just another way of making it look like a problem is being addressed, while saving the effort of really changing anything.

[danz 0]

interesting thread....

 

any japanese peeps following this?? how 'bout any japanese who have had JET teachers?? wonder what your take on this whole thing is...

 

curious danz

[Snowhaus 0]

Ocean11

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or did you really miss the point?

 

Given that 100% of the students are not going to go on and become English teachers, I think that it would be a fantastic result if half a percent discovered sufficient love of a language that they chose to pursue it in a professional capacity. With greater confidence in their own ability (and yes, some small part of that comes from the mere act of talking to a foreigner and realising its not as awful as they envisage), they would be the ones to go and live o/s and return to become the `brilliant motivators` that you lament the lack of. That small half percent could make all the difference to a new generation of students - especially considering that many current students only have an (aging) Japanese teaching population, who were taught under the 'bunpo is everything' system, and are ill equipped to cope with multiculturalism and communicative skills.

 

Quite apart from these students though, are the other 99.5% who may or may not use English after graduation. Some (a minority), will require it to some extent during the course of their careers. They may be the ones who, when placed overseas for three years as an expat find that instead of staying in their Japanese enclave/ghetto, actually dont find mixing with the general population an overwhelming task. Why? Because the increasing presence of foreigners (due in no small part to the JET programme) in Japan makes them less wary. This is not something you get simply from a Japanese teacher teaching you your S, V, and O.

 

Others students may never leave their prefecture and remain peasants (as you so pleasantly refer to them). This may be their one opportunity to be exposed to `gaigins`. The first thing any of the students in my classes want to know about is `tell us about your country. Do they do this, do they have that? Why do these things happen?` Not everyone is as fortunate as your son in having a multilingual, multicultural lifestyle. How do you expect Japan to become internationalised, if you dont want to allow opportunities for young Japanese to meet foreigners. Perhaps drunken Westerners in Roppongi would provide a more appropriate setting?

 

As for my 'astounding hubris'. I dont think so. I know what a difference I can make. I know its not attributable merely to having met me. I never said it was. But I do know that I have made a difference to their lives, in much the same way as I had teachers who made an impact on my life. I genuinely feel sorry for you if have never had such an experience. More than polite thank you letters, my students continued to use me as a sounding board for their hopes and dreams, long after my 'official' duties were over. You dont need a teaching qualification to do that. You just need to be open enough to listen when they feel like no one in the Japanese education system will listen to them.

 

Oh, and on the subject of `inflicting people with no teaching or language study on younger kids` - do you mean to say you didn't speak a word of English until you started elementary school? Of course not - you had parents, other adults, and older kids - presumably they didnt have teaching qualifications either.

 

Sure, there are problems with the programme, and there are things that can be incredibly frustrating, but I really dont believe that it deserves the bile and vitriol that you have dished out. Nevertheless, I am sure nothing will serve to convince you - so each to their own. Hope the view is good from the peanut gallery.

[silly-sausage 0]

Well, I didn't think I'd be creating the topic of the week, here.

 

No time to write essays, I'm a busy AET!

[akibun 0]

I looked here, but its really difficult to understand meaning.

[Ocean11 0]

Snowhaus,

 

From the peanut gallery (whatever that's supposed to mean...)

 

I confess, I missed your point completely. I've never seen '% of future teachers' used as a measure of success of an educational program before.

 

 Quote:

and yes, some small part of that comes from the mere act of talking to a foreigner and realising its not as awful as they envisage),

Oh dear, it always comes around to that with the JET program doesn't it? Why is that? Is that because, in reality, that's all there is? Or, there isn't a great deal more to it that can be put forward as a merit? But that whole line of argument is completely bankrupt. Firstly, most probably don't envisage talking to a foreigner as being awful. Secondly, there are cheaper and more rational ways of getting round that if indeed it is a problem. How about telling them not be so silly, along with drilling them with the SVO? If that doesn't work, then the term 'peasant' is appropriate I think (and I actually used it to parody what seems to me to be the very condescending assumptions of so many JETs, including yours - "How do you expect Japan to become internationalised"...).

 

I'm sorry, but all your projections about inspiring the bold few to take things further than their putative overseas Japanese ghetto are just fantasy projections, and not quite sufficient to base a costly educational program on for many a long year.

 

Also, in Japan it's very easy to meet foreigners if that were really necessary. They live all over the place and take part in Japanese life in many ways. And it's very easy for any Japanese to get up off their backsides and go overseas, even if they live in the sticks. Perhaps if they weren't paying for the JET program, more could afford to do so. But even that's not the point. Even if they never actually meet one of the scary foreigners of your imagination, they're currently facing a huge economic handicap in not being more familiar with English than they currently are. And JET is doing nothing to improve that, because it isn't set up so that it would.

 

You don't need to feel sorry for me and my experiences as a teacher. Many of my frustrations as a teacher came from JET too - there was always the threat that if I pushed too hard for better books, too hard for some sort of stimulation as a teacher, too hard for more effort from my colleagues, too hard for a say in how things are done, then I could be replaced by a cheerful young JET who would require only some beer and free time. But all the same, I had the same pleasant interaction with my students, bright and thick alike, that most teachers have.

 

This is not unwarranted bile and vitriol; the JET program is a disaster, and I think I've produced some fairly good reasons for saying so (most of which you don't address in any form). 'Each to his own' is not the reason I won't fall in line - it's because the few merits put forward aren't even merits. Nice little rhetorical tactic though. Give that a B+

 

And here's another interesting argumentative style from YP.

 Quote:

So we should just leave the test alone, let the students to continue studying passively for all subjects, let them neglect to think for themselves, and never be able to speak English.

I can't quite see what you hope to achieve by misrepresenting what I said so completely. Did you think I wouldn't notice?

 Quote:

If pupils could read, write, and speak English, they could score massively on those tests and make them obsolete (and have something useful besides when they pop out of education's butthole).

The tactic might be more powerful if you claimed I also called for lobotomizing some students.

 

bobby12, how much of a pay rise do '4th year' JETS get? What new status and responsibility are they offered? What training do they undergo to benefit them and their charges as they move into a new teaching age-range? How does a 4 year limit square with the goddamn LABOUR LAWS OF JAPAN?

 

Haaaah, well enough of that. I think I made my point.

[danz 0]

O11...

 

were you the captain of the debate team in high school??

I'd love to hear you in action...

 

danz

[talisker 0]

I was a Jet who was overpaid and under worked...as a result I now speak Japanese and have a good understanding of Japanese culture. I am a qualified teacher and I had a very fulfilling experience

 

From a personal point of view I know I made a difference. I am in no position to judge whether the Jet program as a whole is a success or a failure. I find it interesting that you think you are.

 

I think it is important to relaise that this is not a black and white issue.

 

A CIR is a coordinator for international relations.If you really knew anything about Jet you would know that they work in cross cultural exchange translation etc and you would also know that it is also a big part of an aets life...

 

If you are going to let loose some tirade against something, anything, at least make sure you have researched what you are talking about or it becomes difficult to take you seriously - and

 

my dads bigger than yours.....

[Ocean11 0]

It gets more and more pathetic...

 

So the CIR was key all along, and I never even knew it! It turns out I don't know what I'm talking about after all!

 

talisker, I worked alongside JETs in Osaka where CIRs were not central to anything - I met a few. I saw one in the Osaka City Office when I was doing some environmental campaigning there, but he was completely superfluous as his female superior was extremely competent, so he just sat there with his mouth open.

 

I also heard the opinions of some Board of Education employees concerning JET when I was in union negotiations and drinking with them afterwards. They actually wanted more professional foreign teachers but couldn't take the initiative because the national JET program got in the way. The teachers and students at my school didn't much like the way one of the JET 'sensei' had first gone loopy and then gone AWOL in the middle of term (not that it really made any difference.) So I judged the failure of JET for myself, but also based on what professional Japanese educators think too.

 

Does any of that count as research?

 

(danz, thank you for your comment. Not a debater, but a sometime negotiator)

[bobby12 0]

Akibun,

 

We are talking about the gaijin English teachers in Japanese schools. You probably had one when you were in high school.

 

Ocean11 doesn't like the system that puts these gaijin in the schools. He says it is 'bad for everyone.' Other people think the system has some strengths.

 

We want to know what the Japanese people think.

[bigglesworth 0]

 Quote:

Also, in Japan it's very easy to meet foreigners if that were really necessary.

Erm. Maybe in the cities and bigger places, but not in a very large % of Japan countryside. Many Japanese still have had no contact with foreigners and would find it difficult to get that contact if they wanted to.

[danger_steve 0]

im a tertiary student in Australia and would love to live and work in Japan! how do i go about becoming a AET?

[shiver 0]

Hey AETs! The AET side needs more support, Mr Ocean is taking over. Call in the gang will ya - I want to hear a balanced view.

[talisker 0]

you are right ocean.....it does get more and more pathetic

[Ocean11 0]

 Quote:

I was a Jet who was overpaid and under worked...as a result I now speak Japanese and have a good understanding of Japanese culture. I am a qualified teacher and I had a very fulfilling experience

One of the rare qualified teachers on the JET program, and yet overpaid and underworked. That's a good way for things to be, everything working as it should be there. But, you had your fulfilling experience, so there's some value to the tax payer at least.

If you want to say JET is a blast, you can have your jollies and not have to work very hard at all, that's one thing. But trying to pretend at the same time that you're bringing good righteous foreigness to these woolly-headed backwoods Japanese, something they desperately need, and are giving them the only chance they'll ever get to learn English, well then you'll eventually run into somebody who will laugh and say, "What a load of bollocks." You can't have your cake and eat it.

talisker, was that a lame attempt at sarcarsm there? I bet you were a good teacher...

My, this has been fun. Perky lot, AETs.

[Fattwins 0]

Man you guys type fast. How much free time do you have?

[Snowhaus 0]

 Quote:

'The JET programme was started in 1987 for the purpose of increasing mutual understanding between the people of Japan and the people of other nations, and promoting the internationalisation of Japan's local communities by helping to improve foreign language education and developing international exchange at the community level.' Quoted from 2002 JET programme general information handbook.

As far as I can see, the programme is fulfilling those functions - albeit some things more successfully than others.

[wakaran 1]

 

Agreed

[hide 0]

I don't know much about it, so I cannot say too much maybe. But the concept seems like good idea. I'm sure it works well some places, and doesn't work at all in another.

[talisker 0]

ocean you cant pick the quote that suits your argument and ignore the rest.

 

I had a fulfilling experience because I made a difference,not because I got fat check and didnt have to work. I worked bloody hard just being in a small Japanese town. I did what I could as a teacher and made a lot of progress because the school were willing to listen but that was only half of the job. I was underworked as a teacher but not as a Foreigner in Japan...I earned every single yen.

 

I didnt say anything about trying to bring english to the Japanese hicks. What I said was a big part of an aets job is much like a CIR - not just teaching but trying to get Japanese peolple out of the habit of giggling and staring at foreigners.

 

I agree that the JET program as an educational in school program is flawed and given the chance there are a lot of things I would change but it is not flawed as a cross cultural exchange program.

 

I didnt say that foreigness is righteous either.

I am fully aware that being a gaijin is not a blessing to be bestowed on the good people of this land.

 

at no point did I harp on about teaching English to the townspeople either...in the town i lived in they could barely speak Japanese! That was your assumption.

 

Ocean I am a good teacher and I wasnt being sarcastic...that was pity.

[Ocean11 0]

Again, you show how simplistic your thinking is.

 

 Quote:

the purpose of increasing mutual understanding between the people of Japan and the people of other nations

Again, let me stress, that the JET program is based on a breach of its nation's own laws, a breach that has a knock-on effect on other, far more important areas of education. That is no basis for 'internationalisation'.

 

 Quote:

by helping to improve foreign language education

Again, let me point out that there has been no improvement, and that none can be expected. Even the great teacher talisker's talents were squandered (he couldn't help boasting about that), and I assume he was not invited to stay on as you might expect if there was a real intention to do better. But, oh look, it does only say 'by helping', so I suppose there's no real guarantee that success is going to be measured realistically. We can all feel good that 'we made a difference', and needn't feel obliged to quantify that in any way.

 

 Quote:

developing international exchange at the community level.

...by instituting a national program from which no community can exempt itself if it so wishes, in order to develop systems according to its own requirements (as some clearly do).

 

The concept is a bloody awful idea, and it's amazing that a variety of systems that work better can't be found.

 

So I think that demonstrates, quite clearly, that the official reasons don't stand up to a moment's scrutiny. And then you were honest enough (within your apparently limited capacity for it) to admit that even these manifestly paradoxical functions are not being implemented altogether successfully...

[talisker 0]

once again ocean do not assume...I was asked to stay on. I simply chose not to.

 

Also the communities can exempt themselves from JET - they are not forced to do it - it is voluntary....once again ocean research....

[shiver 0]

More AETS - where are you? I want to hear from you....! Got an AET mate? Throw him in this direction.

 

I am really enjoying this discussion boys - do keep it up. I'm surprised there arent more AETs here right now though.

 

Looking forward to the essays to follow :::::