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i am learning japanese...

 

i speak english and hebrew fluently

and studied spanish in high school...

 

japanese is hands down the hardest language I have encountered...but i hear german and chinese are right up there as well

 

danz

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Japanese shouldn't be difficult if it's taught right, but there are a lot of very bad, very ignorant Japanese teachers of Japanese with no theories of teaching or of language at all. Also many of the textbooks separate spoken and written Japanese (tempting but disastrous).

 

Of course there's a lot of brute force effort required to learn kanji. In languages with alphabets, you can pick up vocabulary just by walking around town and reading signs. In France, if you see a 'Boulanger', you have effectively learnt a new word. In Japan, unless you've learned the word already, what you see just looks like impenetrable gibberish.

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Ocean 11, you seem to be an expert in many things...now even in learning Japanese!

I have been trying to learn Japanese for a few months now on my own in my spare time. I am reading a few "learn Japanese" books and I also have a CD-Rom - Learn Japanese package. I admit it is very difficult and my progress is slow.

What is the best way to learn? Can you recommend any books or programs?

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the japanese courses i took in college were excellent...

 

you need a sensei that is constantly drilling you...not just reading drills from a book, but creating impromptu scenarios where you have to think up sentences yourself, and not just memorize patterns (which suprisingly can get you pretty far in japanese)...as with any language, practice with native speakers is the best way to go about it...but you also need to spend the grunge time memorizing words to build vocab...

 

I think it is hard to find stricht japanese teachers (if they are native...) because it just is not in their nature to be critical...all other senseis I have had after college do not challenge me, and even when i make mistakes they still say "daijyoubu....jyozu desu nee"

 

my .02

 

danz

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Thanks for your 2c Danz. I guess the best way to get lots of practice is to get a Japanese girlfriend (boyfriend). However, for me, that's a "chicken and egg" story. The reason I want to learn Japanese is to get a Japanese girlfriend...I need a Japanese girlfriend to help me learn Japanese so I can get a Japanese girlfriend...etc. Ha Ha

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 Quote:
The reason I want to learn Japanese is to get a Japanese girlfriend


Us non-Japanese babes not good enought for you, hey??????
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Girlfriends aren't usually a very good way to learn a language. They're generally critical of your failings and inability, but have no practical value at all as teachers or mentors. Plus they have other things on their mind.

 

If you're a complete beginner, going to any Japanese bookshop and picking up some textbooks meant for Japanese children can be helpful. Also, getting past papers of the Japanese Language Proficiency Test and associated study materials is a tried and true method of raising your general level. Take one test a year for three years and you're waratteiru.

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I don't dare say anyone is "not good enought" for me, rach. It's just that there is something about Japanese girls which drives me crazy! I don't know why.

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For yesterday afternoons game at the World Cup, I listened to the Japanese commentary. Well, tried to anyway.

 

It's worth if just to try it out. I dread to think what they're like when Japan are playing.

 

But enough of that - back to the much calmer English.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think most of the replies in this thread are right on. Japanese is a hard language. Basically, if you dont put in a lot of effort, you wont get anywhere with it. Ive seen gaijin living here for years and cant hold a simple conversation, read a menu, or ask for assistance when shopping or buying something.

 

Once you get a base after learning the kana and some general kanji its pretty easy. Grammar isnt that difficult, its just backwards from English. I think once you get past level 2, it gets really hard as all you do is study Kanji. Level 2 and 1 grammar is pretty similar; but the Kanji that you have to know for level 1 is crazy!!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yuki's passion.

 

The tests have a distinct core to them, so that while Level 1 is supposedly all 1900 of the standard use (jouyou) kanji, you can get a fantastic score without knowing anything like as many. Do a few past papers and the pattern will emerge.

 

Since the Level 1 test is far from perfect, many Japanese universities set their entrance qualification at a score that is well above Level 1 pass mark.

 

As for kanji themselves, the Japanese kanji kentei exams are a far more thorough test of kanji knowledge. Well hard they are. For gaijin learners, I think it's worth doing a test called the Jitsuryoku Nihongo Kentei. It's like TOEIC so everyone takes the same test regardless of level. The advanced reading passages are far closer to real Japanese than the simplistic "school textbook" type passages you get in the December test.

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