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The Official England vs Brazil Thread


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I actually think they can do it scouser.

 

Belgium could easily have won their game, especially as you said if they had scored first.

 

With the defence that England have shown so far this cup, they could be in a great position to do it.

 

It will be a big blow if Owen can't join in the game, although it looks like he probably will.

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Very silly, but thats the brit tabs for ya:

 

---------------

 

UNCANNY ECHOES OF 1966 CUP TRIUMPH

 

 

 

 

By David Edwards, Brian Reade And Martin Lipton

 

 

IT'S a string of coincidences that can point to only one thing - England will be basking in World Cup glory by June 30.

 

Here are our twelve uncanny parallels between this year's tournament and England's triumph in 1966:

 

1) WE KICKED OFF WITH A DREARY DRAW

 

In 1966 Sir Alf Ramsey's team were held 0-0 by Uruguay in their opening match. Nineteen days ago Sven Goran Eriksson's side began their campaign looking anything but world-beaters in a dismal 1-1 stalemate with Sweden.

 

2) ARGENTINA BEATEN 1-0

 

Geoff Hurst scored the only goal as the '66 team beat the South Americans. David Beckham's penalty secured the same scoreline in Sapporo.

 

3) CHAMPIONS CRASH OUT

 

Brazil's first round elimination in 1966 was the first shock of the tournament, with the two-time defending champions ignominiously hustled out in the group phase. When France were beaten 2-0 by Denmark in their final group game, they became the first holders since those Brazilians to go out at the initial stages.

 

4) MATCH OF THE SKIPPERS

 

Becks, like '66 captain Bobby Moore, is a fair-haired lad who was born in Essex.

 

5) ITALIAN SHOCKERS

 

Outsiders North Korea notched a sensational win over Italy in 1966. On Tuesday it was the turn of South Korea to humiliate the hotly tipped Europeans.

 

6) NUMBERS GAME

 

Hurst wore the No 10 shirt when he scored three goals against the Germans in the '66 Wembley final. Hat-trick hero Michael Owen wore the same number when we routed Germany 5-1 in this tournament's qualifying stage.

 

7) MASTERS OF COOL

 

Calm, focussed and not about to leap off the bench as all those around them go wild - for Sir Alf read Sven.

 

8) HAMMERS HAT-TRICK

 

Ramsey used three West Ham players - Moore, Hurst and Martin Peters. Sven also has an Upton Park trio in his squad - Trevor Sinclair, Joe Cole and David James.

 

9) LEFT SOLIDARITY

 

Hosts Japan also drive on the left of the road - the first such World Cup venue England have played at since, you've guessed it, 1966.

 

10) BEATLES MARRY

 

Back in '66 Fab Four guitarist George Harrison married blonde model Patti Boyd. This year his former bandmate Sir Paul McCartney tied the knot with blonde model Heather Mills.

 

11) LABOUR IN POWER

 

Just like then, we have a Labour government and a Prime Minister who follows the beautiful game.

 

Harold Wilson was often spotted at Huddersfield Town's ground and Tony Blair proclaims himself a Newcastle fan.

 

12) ELVIS IN THE CHARTS

 

During the '66 tournament Elvis Presley was in the charts for six weeks crooning Love Letters. Thirty-six years on, the King is back in the charts with A Little Less Conversation.

 

We could go on. Drab Germany are progressing through - Helmut Schoen's 1966 team were if anything even more unheralded than Rudi Voeller's side are this time round.

 

But they scraped through to the final, and this year they have echoed their 1966 fortunes so far thanks to others' failures.

 

In 1966 Britain and Spain, as now, were discussing the future of Gibraltar. Africa was being ravaged by a drought which the world chose to ignore.

 

And the USA was fighting a war against an elusive enemy on the other side of the world.

 

Substitute President Lyndon Johnson and Vietnam for President George W Bush and Afghanistan and the similarities are uncanny.

 

Britain was facing a crisis with the illegal Smith regime in Rhodesia, which had defied international pressure to cling to power.

 

It's now Zimbabwe but leader Robert Mugabe is similarly accused of trying to stay in office at all costs by rigging this year's election.

 

In both '66 and this summer, the tournament final will be played on the 30th of the month with a ball which is not white.

 

Before the 1966 World Cup, Manchester City were promoted to the English top flight as champions - just as they were this year.

 

On the Continent, Real Madrid are the European champions just as they were 36 years ago.

 

Britain is an island with a constitutional monarchy. Japan consists of four islands and is headed by an emperor who is subject to the decisions of parliament as well.

 

Before Sir Alf's team went into the quarter-finals England's goal difference was plus 4, the same as today. And just like then, we enter this next game in the tournament with the best defensive record of any side.

 

Think it's all over? It must be now.

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Ingerand 2-1 - and what a mighty fine day for it too.

 

Will be at the pub downing a fine ale or two (and working out which file to charge it to.....NOT!)

 

Saw a nice wee t-shirt at the pub last night. It had 1966 crossed out and 2002 written above it... Nice one.

 

Belle

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OK had a bit of time now.

 

It was not an impressive match.

 

One thing I do really hope for though - no backlash about Seaman.

 

He may have made a blunder today against a sublime free kick from Mr Sad Hair (looks like a scally!), but until now he has done a superb job.

 

clap.gif

 

frown.gif

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The England that came out today just wasn't The Really Good One (as opposed to the one that came out - The Rather Average One).

 

What do you reckon the heat has something to do with it. Not looking for excuses or anything, but looking at the games so far in the WC...

 

The Really Good One came out for the games in Sapporo and Niigata (where it was very cool and in the evening), but The Rather Average One came out for the Nigeria game and todays game - both in the heat of the afternoon. ??

 

Anyway. It's got to be said - them Brazil dudes don't half play well, don't they?

 

[This message has been edited by big-will (edited 21 June 2002).]

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Poor bloke:

 

Tearful Seaman says sorry to fans

 

A distraught and tearful David Seaman has apologised to the nation after his blunder saw England crash out of the World Cup.

 

Seaman was caught out by a floated second-half free-kick from Ronaldinho which flew over his head from 35 yards to hand Brazil a 2-1 victory.

 

Seaman was in tears at the final whistle and, while his team-mates applauded the England fans, he was hugged by goalkeeping coach Ray Clemence.

 

Then the 38-year-old, after what is certain to be his final World Cup match, again broke down when he tried to talk to the media.

 

Seaman has defied his critics and been one of the stars of the tournament for England, but that was scant consolation for the player.

 

He said; "It is very hard to take but that's just life as a goalkeeper. The main thing is I want to say sorry to the fans."

 

Seaman then choked back the tears with his head bowed before also saying: "I want to say sorry to the people I've let down today. That's just the way it goes."

 

It will be sad if Seaman's 73rd appearance for his country - 14 years after his debut - is the way he is remembered after such sterling service.

 

He will be approaching his 41st birthday when the 2004 finals are held in Portugal.

 

But England players believe that Seaman, who was also a member of the 1990 World Cup squad, has nothing to be ashamed of.

 

Teddy Sheringham, the second oldest member of the squad after Seaman, said: "David could be upset but it is not his fault. Things like that happen. In my opinion he is still the world's best.

 

"As for myself and David, we don't know if this will be our last chance. You never know what happens and we will see."

 

Sol Campbell knows that England have surrendered a golden chance to reach their first final since their 1966 triumph.

 

He said: "This was going to be our hardest match. if we had won this match, we would have had an easy route to the final. Still, there will be plenty more chances to come."

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England went as far as their real ability could take them. I haven't checked the news websites yet, but I agree with you scouser in that I hope that Seaman doesn't get a bad rap out of this. He is excellent for the vast majority of the time.

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It was bound to happen I suppose, but sad anyway.....

 

Seamen gets stick as England bow out: press

LONDON, June 22 (AFP)

As a nation drowned its sorrows, the British press blamed England's defeat in the World Cup quarter-final squarely on the broad shoulders of goalkeeper David Seaman after he was hoodwinked by a bizarre free-kick winner from the Brazilians.

A press with a tendency to over-hype England's chances was instead trying to nurse English hangovers Saturday by explaining why the nation's footballing dreams were over.

"Once again England tread the trail of tears: a quadrennial pilgrimage of hopes dashed and unabashed public weeping," The Times daily said.

With France, Argentina and Italy all departed, many here, who thought now was the time for England to claim their first triumph since 1966, were buoyed even more by Michael Owen's 23rd minute opener.

"The chance of chances was lost, thanks to a catastrophic individual error," The Times said, "David Seaman stood rooted to the spot as a free kick from Ronaldinho sailed over his head and into the goal."

"England pass up a golden opportunity to stride on," said The Guardian lamenting the fact that their challenge, after leading the Brazilians, faltered and then ended with a whimper.p

The match began to turn late in the first half when Ronaldhino escaped the tackle of Paul Scholes in midfield and made a bee-line for the English goal.

Tying in defenders he eased the ball through to Rivaldo who levelled the sides with a precise finish low to the left hand corner.

England's fate was sealed after the break when Ronaldhino floated in an unlikely 35-metre free-kick that proved to be the winner.

"It was a wonder shot from Ronaldhino that knocked England out of the World Cup, but it was his harsh dismissal seven minutes later that ruined this match as a spectacle," said The Financial Times.

England lost the tactical battle that followed the star's sending-off in the 57th minute, constantly chasing the ball and failing to produce clear chances on goal.

It was impossible to say whether Brazil's winner was the result of inspiration and cunning or simply a flukey mishit but England certainly should have done better when the opposition were a man short, according to the FT.

"Yet by reaching the quarter-final Eriksson's young squad achieved about as much as anyone had expected prior to the tournament," it added consolingly.

Similarly, The Guardian highlighted the disastrous situation facing the team before Sven-Goran Eriksson's appointment as coach last year and the Football Association's emphasis on preparing well ahead for Germany in 2006.

"The long-term ambition was to build a side capable of winning the World Cup not now but four years hence," it said.

Ironically, in a young team it was England's oldest player Seaman, 38, who was largely responsible for the defeat, according to the tabloids.

"Blunder will live with him for ever," said The Daily Express.

"The pony-tailed keeper -- known until yesterday as 'safe hands' -- was hopelessly out of position," said The Mail.

In France last time round it was the present England captain, David Beckham, whose sending-off for kicking an opponent was largely blamed for putting his team on the early plane home.

This time Beckham urged people not to blame the Arsenal goalie.

"For a start if anyone tries to make a scapegoat out of David Seaman I think it will be an absolute disgrace because I think he's been the best goalkeeper in this tournament," he said.

"The goal wasn't his fault, it was a fluke goal. It was a cross that ended up being a goal.

The Times disagreed: "He knew, as Beckham knew four year earlier, that he had cost them their place in the next round of the World Cup.

"It was, if anything worse this time: Seaman's error might have cost England the World Cup itself, for hopes were sky-high until the clanger dropped."

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