The etiquette of smashing into people

[mattlucas 0]

Fattwins - its was snowing heavily for a few hours on Sunday but by the time I got to the parking lot of my local hill at 8 it was pouring BC Pineapple Express style. The temp was just at freezing to. To bad not a degree or two colder.

 

 

As for the topic. Just cause you can cut across the slope in huge arcs does not mean you always should. There are runs where you can do that yes and go ahead carve your heart out but most runs you just can't. In most cases its best just to do survival turns or straightline back to the lift before getting back in the trees. It's not hard knowing your surroundings. All it takes is a little bit of brain power to turn your head up the hill every once in a while.

 

But this is silly. If arupensutairu and RayinJapan want to ride the groomers all day perfecting there perfect carve they can go ahead. More snow for Fattwins and myself in the trees.

[Fattwins 0]

Hey toque it rained all the way up to 2000 feet on sunday then froze all up the next day. The pipe was cut the night before when it was warm so it was in graat shape the next day. IT was very hard though but the air was massive one of the best pipes of the year. You can lap the happo pipe cause the lift is right there I did 16 runs in 90 minutes.

 

Where you going this weekend local?

[mattlucas 0]

Yup local for the next few weekends. Trying to squeeze the last out of these resorts before spending the bigger money getting to Nagano. The hills got a good dump on Monday so this weekend might be fun. Its cold as well so the snow shold be nice.

 

I am planning a trip back home for late March early April and will try to get a few days at Whistler which would be wild but it all depends on flight cost.

[SerreChe 2]

Ayrton Sena is dead. If you want to be on the edge, make sure you only potentially injure yourself and not others.

 

Downhill people have right of way, full stop.

 

Does it mean that downhill people can carve throughout the entire width of the slope back and forth without being aware of their environment uphill?

 

Legally, yes.

Etiquette-wise, no.

 

Remember that you share the slope with others, therefore be mindful and respectful of others even if you are in your good right. If a pedestrian crosses when it is red for him at a traffic light by mistake (or arrogance or whatever other lunatic reason), you are not gonna run him over with your car even if the pedestrian is in the wrong.

 

At the end of the day, the reason why we have so many crashes on the slopes: Selfishness, arrorange, and too many people trying to show off instead of enjoying what they are doing for themselves.

[slow 0]

I was hit by a downhill skier on a beginner's slope when I was a beginner. He didn't care about me and nothing to say. No injury and I was OK but so shocked. I felt like "I'm sorry that I was something wrong and I shouldn't ski here. This is your place..." But I was a beginner and practiced on a begginer's slope, of course I had no way of avoiding full speed guy behind me.

 

If people really want to do high speed or big turn, they should do it on the reserved practice slope or the empty slope early morning or nighta on weekdays. They shouldn't do it on a crowded weekends beginner's slope.

This is more like saying to myself.

[SerreChe 2]

Here is a link to an article relating to liabilities involved when hitting people on the slopes (in the US).

 

http://www.skimag.com/skimag/fall_line/article/0,12795,560893,00.html

[gammaman 0]

Thanks She.

Interesting.

However, still interested in what happens when the patrol turn up. Do they make you sign something? What if you`re the witness? Is it worth hanging around for the probable hours?

What about if you don`t actually hit anybody but they fall over apparently because you went too close? Are you liiable?

Am I thinking too much?

Somebody help

[badmigraine 0]

The Skier's Code...what a lark. Its practical effect is no more than well-intentioned playground rules that can be used to pull your ticket if the operator feels so inclined.

 

Many don't know the Code, or knowing it, don't follow it.

 

Many sporadically follow it but forget about it in order to complete a particularly satisfying high-speed maneuver or take advantage of a snow stash or terrain feature. It's natural to blank on certain rules when having exciting experiences.

 

And then there are the drinkers, like Mogski...

 

Look, even if the Court of International Justice in the Hague affirms one interpretation of the Skier's Code or another, what difference does it make to that spiral fracture, to that 12-year-old lying there with his tooth knocked out, or--if you're lucky--that unsightly gouge in your topsheet?

 

If you don't know how to minimize the risk of collision, or if you think a Code eliminates the need to check what could happen to your line at speed, then you might want to re-think your hobby.

 

This thread reminds me of threads on motorcycle BBSs, where some canyon-carver or cafe racer goes on record complaining about bad car drivers swerving across lines, and/or being "too good for accidents to happen to me".

 

They're right...somebody broke the rule...but look at the consequences. You KNEW this could happen.

 

You can be the best ever, but still get taken out by another's mistake.

 

Why put your own safety in the hands of a bunch of unknown skiers and boarders?

 

Here's the real skiers' code:

 

Anybody might do anything on the slopes at any given time. You've known this for ages, you're on formal notice, so watch out.

[Ocean11 0]

"pleading guilty to felony child abuse and reckless endangerment".

 

That's bizarre. Running over a child by accident isn't what I'd think of as child abuse. Although taking a child out where they're likely to get hit, and leading them in snaking patterns across slopes thereby increasing their chances of getting hit seems closer to what most people think of as child abuse. One reason I stopped taking my son to resorts was that it was nearly impossible to assure a reasonable degree of safety.

 

I agree with badmigraine's take on this - the Codes and whatnot can be distilled down to 'If you don't exercise common sense, you're going to get hurt'. The getting hurt bit now also includes financial damages.

[GoodTimes 0]

That is pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

 

Ocean11 - where do you take your son now then?

[Ocean11 0]

GoodTimes, I decided to wait until he's bigger.

 

Last time I went boarding, I watched two kids of his age on skis flopping and sitting about all over a very narrow slope which was being used by beginner level snowboarders riding out of any control at all, as well as more competent skiers and boarders who were all going quite fast. Even if you can accept exposing your child to that kind of risk, they don't appear to enjoy it that much. (The out-of-control teens seemed to be having a blast though.)

[SerreChe 2]

Stoke, these are all valid and interesting questions. To be honest I do not know the answers, especially when it comes to Japan. But for sure, if I was on the slopes and I saw somebody out of control take out some children then I would volunteer myself as a witness since I would deem it to be worth it. If it is a minor crash I would probably go on and let them sort it out themselves, and I would enjoy the rest of my day rather than get dragged into it. Otherwise as for your question regarding coming too close to somebody and making them fall, then I am not sure. I guess it would be a hard case to argue... As mentionned by others on this thread, the code is difficult to implement easy to forget and open to various interpretations, so common sense and respect for the others should hopefully prevail. Maybe if things start getting worse (as they have been over the years) then they will start having licences to allow people to ski as is the case in some other sports ??!!

[tisk2000 0]

i was at goryu/47 on saturday and i was taking a break off to the side well out of the way of the runs when some idiot slams into me with his board...i was so pissed and wanted to curse him to hell but then i realized he wouldnt understand me. so i just gave him the evil eye. i was more concerned with him cutting my jacket open with his board. so the point to all this is...your gonna get hit even if you think your out of the way.

[gammaman 0]

Thanks Serre. Basically no answers then. Oh, well.

 

I intend to show common sense whenever out. Just can`t vouch for everybody else out there.

 

A license sounds like a good idea. At least when you drive on the road you know (practically) everybody has had to pass a test.

[quattro 1]

What it boils down to it is up to each skier to ski in a controlled manor. I can usually tell the beginners using the slope by the way they turn and the amount of slope they use up. I adjust my speed accordingly pass them and then continue. If the slope is just that crowed go-slow and find a slope with less people. If you can’t control your speed enough to avoid an accident you have no business going that fast. Show a little courtesy and respect. As far as some of the teenagers we were all their once just keep an open eye out for them. Try to rest up in as safe area as possible. Above all else enjoy yourself where all out here to have fun.

[badmigraine 0]

I don't think licensing would help.

 

They're required to drive cars, but we still have lots of car accidents. And lots of people violating the traffic laws, speeding, doing rolling stops, playing with radios or driving drunk.

 

There's fake licenses, licensed drivers who are visually or aurally impaired...old drivers, hyper drivers, drivers with guns in the glove box. Drivers falling asleep, drivers racing on canyon roads, drivers eating food or talking on cell phones...

 

The license doesn't protect you against anything.

 

All you have to do is pass a test virtually anybody can pass, then you go and do what you want. The only thing regulating your behavior is common sense and cops.

 

I doubt it would change skiing/boarding for the better.

 

Not only would it be an annoying hassle to have to take a test and get/carry a license on the slopes, but would we then have slope cops enforcing the "rules", which would likely move from a suggested code to inflexible requirements? Fines for infractions of rules? Speed limits on slopes? Inflexible off-piste rules?

 

Fake licenses? Waiting in line or making appointments for licensing tests?

 

Different licensing regimes for kids, teens, adults, seniors?

 

Sorry, but this doesn't sound like a good idea at all.

 

I like it the way it is now, where you use your common sense. You have to learn. This is your Life. The government or a licensing body isn't going to fix this problem.

 

It wasn't too long ago that some resorts in Japan required snowboarders to pay money and take a test before being allowed to board the resort. I don't recall anybody being happy about that. It proved nothing, and served only to separate riders from 1,000 yen. Does anybody really want to go back to those days?

 

Some resorts in the US and Canada post ski patrollers in areas where the resort wants you to slow down. There are banners and everying, "slow down"! Even in those places, the patrol is kept busy chasing down and scolding/penalizing people who didn't slow down.

 

And every one of them had their reasons.

 

"I didn't see the signs..."

 

"I came through here yesterday, and there were no such signs..."

 

"There's nobody else around, what difference does it make if I go fast...?"

 

"I'm good enough that I'm in control at the speed I was traveling..."

 

Hey, it may even have happened to YOU. I know I've been yelled at to Slow Down in those places.

 

Here we see the difficulty and the extent of the problem. You get people having a blast hurtling down a hill on planks, and now you want them to be careful and take care of every other person around, regardless of their skill level or level of belligerent idiocy.

 

The answer is as I already posted: you're on notice that people could do anything on the slopes, so be careful and ride accordingly.

[SerreChe 2]

For risky/dangerous sports, very often a licence is required. I scuba Dive. It is a sport where a licence is required in most cases (ignoring introductory dives and the like). Does a licence stop people from being stupid and dangerous? Not necessarily, but at least taking a licence forces them to listen and think, and that is a first step! Can you imagine how dangerous roads would be if people did not have to take a licence? (Even more than they currently are, scary thought). Unfortunately you are right in pointing out that surely it would be an excuse to part people from muchos yen. As for the inconvenience of taking a licence, well I would be willing to put up with it if it meant more responsible people and safer slopes. On the other hand to be efficient, a licence might mean enforcement as has been pointed out. Having snow cops behind each tree is not an appealing thought, especially for pow lovers who like to dodge the ropes though. So might not be a practical solution, but when you've just been hit by somebody on the slopes sometimes you sure do wish a licence was required. Maybe it should be implemented the other way around. Instead of forcing everybody to take the licence, put people who hit other people on a national black-list and force them to take some course before being allowed back on the slopes. But of course that would also mean having IDs when buying tickets(minor inconvenience)... There is no perfect solution, but in the end if people continue to behave the way they do on average on the solpes then things are going to have to change and everybody is gonna suffer.

[Ocean11 0]

How about just punching people who run into you...? And if you're not up to punching, maybe pack a can of Mace or a Taser.

[RayInJapan 0]

Licensing doesn't sound all that bad, after all, skiing and snowboarding are high risk activities too. I have a car drivers license, a boat captains license (needed for my jet skis), and a motorcycle license that I could only get after attending a motorcycle safety course. I have a diving certification card too(PADI Master SCUBA Diver Trainer), not actually a license although the industry standard is you have to have one to fill tanks, rent gear and/or go on dive charters.

 

Unlike other high risk activities though, I think you only should have to prove you know the "rules" before heading to the slopes - not have to show you are competent on sticks or boards. I have to admit that when I first learned to snowboard, I didn't know the "rules". I learned them by coming here to SJ.

 

I like the punching idea Ocean, particularly if they hit Momo. It also applies to the guy who runs red lights all the time like most drivers do in this country, and someday will hit me as I'm driving through a green light.

[SerreChe 2]

According to Jack ("sh.t") who's tested them all, mace is by far the worse. O11, do u have a gun in your car? ahaha. How about acid in the face, or next time I'll bring my chainsaw on the slopes?

 

Jokes beside, funny RIJ mentionned about red lights, it drives me nuts as well. Looks like people are very respectful (most of the time, and clearly more than in other countries) for most things in this country except when they're on the slopes or the road.

 

Hit people where it hurts the most, their wallet!

[Thunderpants 0]

Respect for red light?!?!?!

come to Shizuoka my friend, people drive like idiots here, red lights are are considered "a friendly advice" here.

[RayInJapan 0]

Check this out...

 

I was on the phone tonight with a friend of mine who is down in Okinawa. He went to Rusutsu last month for a week, and on his last day there, he and his wife are walking out of a resturant - out the doors of the resturant mind you - and he gets plowed into by a Korean tourist lady on skis. Busts both of his top front teeth out.

 

After 3 hours of discussion between him, the korean lady who profusely apologized at first, then eventually had the balls to say maybe it wasn't her that hit him - it might have been one of the other two girls she hit first! Rusutsu staff had nothing to say at all cause they had no balls, and the lady's companions could only say "well you know, skiing is a dangerous hobby and these things happen." He got so pissed he eventually just walked off.

 

I told him the first thing he should have done was call the police. Then call for Rusutsu staff, then call for the tour groups manager, cause they are supposed to have insurance for this stuff (Momo says).

 

Of course its all too late now - the hag is back in Korea telling all of her friends how she knocked the teeth out of someone over in Japan.

 

I've heard over and over again: "You must have insurance cause if you hit someone, you are liable". All those people are obviously wrong cause my bud got smacked hard and the only thing the resort staff could say was "we didn't see it so we can't do anything"...

 

Bullshit.

 

This portion edited by RIJ...see my next post to see why...

[SerreChe 2]

Thunder, I think you may have misunderstood me. We all agree that nobody respects red lights!

 

As for RIJ's bud getting his teeth knocked out, well it highlights the fact that resort staff are usually not trained to handle these situations. Maybe I am wrong, maybe they are trained (not to intervene) and let people sort it out. Maybe we should start petitioning resorts to have a hotline (number printed on the lift tix or elwhere) to have resort staff intervene in these cases. If you speak Japanese you should clearly call the police in serious cases.

 

Bottom line is: people have to take responsibility for their actions and resorts should be able to provide help/guidance in the process of assigning these responsibilities.

[mattlucas 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by RayInJapan:
Anyone ever been to Korea? They are beginning to invade our slopes up north here and I have to say its not for the better, and this incident proves it.

Damn Gaijin.

That's a pretty blatent racist remark there eh RIJ.

[RayInJapan 0]

Racist? No "racist" implies I don't like someone simply because of their asian ethnic background. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

I edited these posts because this is not the proper forum for me to vent my personal feelings about certain life experiences...

 

I'm not apologizing for anything - simply eliminating a potential source of controversy on a forum that should be about fun...