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So I have recently been felled and wiped off the face of the snow for the second time (1st time skier, 2nd time boarder, incase you were wondering) while just innocently doing my thing. Both times causing damage to my boards which have needed repairing.

 

Now after the initial shock has worn off and the "watch out you bleedin idiot, what d`ya think yer playin at?" has been translated, I just kinda lick my wounds and get on with it.

 

After, I`m left wondering why the hell I should suffer for some idiot who can`t contol themselves.

 

So is there an accepted practice for somehow sorting out an acknowledgement of blame?

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Hi .Stoke.

2 weeks ago, an 8 year old kid got killed at my "home resort" Ontake, after a 28 year old skier crashed into him/her (dunno if it was a boy or a girl).

 

I had a young snowboard teenager crashing into me, after he overtook me, and failed a silly trick right in front of me to impress me. stupid.......

 

i am able to ride very fast, but fear of crashing into other people always slows me down.

 

i have the impression that if you come from behind, it is your responsibility not to crash into people in front of you. That being said, i have been "caught" by people in front/to the side of me who have made wide turns on crowded days

 

my point is: Everything starts with yourself, and if you behave well (and i have no doubt that you do) and take care, maybe there will be one accident less that day.

 

ATB

Thunderpants, who by the way is fuming at the boss for sending me to work on a chilly saturday after 40 cm snow at Nozawa \:\(

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Spent a week skiing & boarding in Hakuba. While there, was amazed that there were not more crashes. While we stayed there, the wife of the owner of the pension where we were at was skiing along and got hit by a boarder. She had to go to hospital for a couple of days with vertebrae/neck/back pains. The young japanese guy who hit her, ran (boarded) away without stopping... I really, really wished people were less worried about trying to impress each other and started looking out and around them for others on the slopes. I am the same as TPants, I can ski/board very fast, but will not do so on crowded slopes or in places with bad vis. Nowadays, being on the slopes is just like driving: skiing/boarding properly does not mean you are not gonna get into a crash, you also have to try to anticipate what dangerous moves people around you can potentially make and try to avoid them. I could not help but notice that many of the Uni kids on the slopes have little regard for the people around them (although they are not the only guilty parties)...Next time will take a week off in Jan. instead of Feb. (better snow and less crowded slopes)

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do they teach the alpine code in japan?

 

In aus, they have big banners with the rules on them, under many of the lifts. Its also printed on the back of your ticket in some resorts.

 

http://www.mthotham.com.au/information/alpinecode.htm

 

 

Alpine Code

Know and observe the code - it's your responsibility:

 

Know your ability.

Always stay in control.

Be able to stop and avoid other people or objects.

Take lessons from qualified professional instructors to learn and progress.

Do not stop where you obstruct a trail or run or are not visible from above.

When entering a trail or run or starting downhill, look uphill and give way to others.

Always use proper devices to prevent runaway equipment. Ensure you equipment is in good condition.

Avoid people ahead of you - they have right of way.

Observe all signs and warning.

Keep off closed trails or runs and out of closed areas.

Before using any lift you must have the knowledge and ability to load, ride and unload safely.

Do not ski, snowboard, ride a chair or undertake any other alpine activity, if drugs or alcohol impairs your ability.

If you involved in a collision or witness an accident, alert Ski Patrol, remain at the scene and identify your self to the Ski Patrol.

Failure to observe the code may result in cancellation of your ticket by the Ski Patrol or other authorised personnel.

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I've been taken out a few times, and had many close calls. The other person often blames me, despite the fact that they were clearly in the wrong according to the skier's responsibility code.

 

The usual situation is that they are heading more or less straight down the fall-line, and are overtaking me as I carve across the fall-line. They take the view that I rode "into their path", whereas I take the view that as the downhill person, I have the right of way. After all, I can't see the people above me on the slope, but they can (or at least should) see the people below them.

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First of all I will say I have never been hit or have hit anybody in 18 years of skiing. There have been close calls but knock on wood there won't be any real accidents.

 

Well it's very easy to say that if you are in front you are in the right but...

 

Cutting directly across the fall line is dangerous. Your just asking for an accident. If your driving on the highway in the slow lane and you choose to go in the fast lane you don't just cut in without looking. You should shoulder check to make sure you don't cut somebody off. This should go with skiing/snowboarding. But this isn't to say that the uphill person can't anticipate the downhills persons moves.

 

So what I am saying is just because you are below on the run doesn't give you the right to go all over the slope expecting any faster people to go around you.

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It's not practical, or even possible, to check up hill on every turn. And I am cutting across the fall-line on almost every turn, and sometimes even heading up-hill.

 

There are no "slow lanes" or "fast lanes" on the mountain. Hell, I'm usually going faster than the people who are overtaking me anyway!

 

It's simple - if you want to overtake somebody, make sure you don't crash into them. I overtake 99 people for every one that overtakes me, and it's that 1 that puts me in danger rather than the 99.

 

Check out this video of me riding to see the kind of turns I am talking about.

 

One thing I should mention - on weekends when it's crowded I find that conditions are much safer as there are less people bombing the fall-line. As long as I can carve through the crowds I'll be OK. It's the uncrowded weekdays that are bad as the people that are there are all taking the opportunity to rip the groomers at high speed without any awareness of anything outside the very narrow path they intend to follow.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by arupensutairu:


Hell, I'm usually going faster than the people who are overtaking me anyway!
Thats funny. Would love to see that.

But never said there are fast lanes and slow lanes. Just that if your cutting across the slope your increasing the risk of hitting people going straight unless you take a look up the hill every once in a while.

I am not going to waste my time looking at your video but I can assume your a snowboarder. So you have a blindspot. I am a skier and I have a blindspot as well. Its behind me. When I cut directly across the hill I usually look up the slope to make sure I am not going to cut somebody off or hit anybody. You don't have to look up the slope on every turn but making sure your not going to hurt somebody is important.
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Actually Toque, I'm pretty sure the statement "Avoid people ahead of you - they have have the right of way" does in fact mean that you do have the right of way to go all over the slope expecting faster people to go around you.

 

There aren't any "lanes" on the slope. The rule is simple: "He who heads down first has the right of way until safely passed by someone else, who then has the right of way." BTW - Its hard enough to watch out for the folks below you without having to rubber neck your head around to see if the coast is clear before making every turn. No - the rule is simple - and needs to remain simple to easily determine who is at fault.

 

The faster skier/boarder has to anticipate, and even expect the slower person to make a turn into their path, and then adjust or be able to adjust their speed accordingly to avoid an accident.

 

I'm not the fastest guy down the mountain, but I'm definitely not the slowest either, and get bothered big time by folks who are on one side of the slope and then carve all the way over to my side.

 

BUT,

 

The rule is they have the right of way, and I have to choices: Slow down and pass safely, or get off the slopes. I choose to slow down.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Toque:
 Quote:
Originally posted by arupensutairu:


Hell, I'm usually going faster than the people who are overtaking me anyway!
Thats funny. Would love to see that.
Why is this funny? Do you not understand how that can happen? I sometimes ride twice as fast as the people overtaking me.

If you check the video you can see at one point a skier in the background who is travelling approx half my speed, yet we both stay approx level with each other.

As for looking up the hill, even if I did find it possible to do it, it wouldn't help me. How can I know what the person above me is going to do? If I decide to change my course because I see somebody who is at risk of crashing into me, I may make things worse by doing something that was not predictable. The person above me might have been just about to take evasive action, and my evasive action might put me into his new path. It seems safer for me to try and stick to a reasonably predictable pattern.
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The pompously-named Alpine Code really needs a line saying "And don't be too much of a w*nker".

 

Then when you were riding right down the edge of the slope tyring to avoid matey skiing on one leg oblivious to all around him, and he still swerves right across the slope, hits you, and twists his knee horribly, you can identify yourself to the patrol and say "He was being a complete w*nker" and they won't make any further demands on your time.

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I'm not saying that we should change the rules but more that and this is obvious and not against what either of you said but more to beginners.

 

Just cause you are below somebody doesn't mean you should cut across half the slope changing your turn patturn at unpredictable times cause its your given right under the responsibility code.

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I've had a collison like the one Arupensutairu describes. Ski dude comes right across from the left and collide with me, sideways. My first thought - Baka!!! on second thought, we are both at fault.

we were both acting like we were alone on the slope. I learned my lesson, hope ski dude did too.

atb

Thunderpants

PS arupensutairu i've just looked at your video, impressive stuff, but it remind me of something like this "i was going down the freeway at 250mph, minding my own business, and then suddenly some guy pulled out from the rest area, what was he thinking?"

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So both times I mentioned I think Iwas not at fault for a number of reasons. I was going at a moderate pace on uncrowded slopes turning fairly shallow, regular and therefore easily predictable turns. I was below and they came from behind. They weren`t just clips or crossover of woods they were full on bodily smacks. Even when I go through them in my mind I can`t understand how these folks managed it.

Something that springs to mind is wise words my Mum told me when I was learning to drive which was always make sure you can always stop in the space you can see ahead of you. Kinda makes sense to me.

 

What I am interested in is even if you can be bothered to wait for the ski patrol (or fetch them), what do they actually do?

Is it worth it?

And will the gaijin get blamed anyway? (sorry couldn`t resist)

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I gotta go with toque on this one if you cut accoss the hill you gotta look up. the code even says that when entering or changing your line check up the hill.

 

When making big turns you have to be carefull cause your using up alot of the mountain. The only way that you can go faster than those who are passing you is if your using alot of the run big turns across the falline. If your doing that you better also know who is behind you.

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I always try to overtake on the outside rather than the inside and in doing so, I can avoid collisions that result from a sudden turn. However, that is sometimes impossible if the person I'm trying to overtake uses up the full width of the piste and results in squeezing me over the edge. Because of that, I always make it a point when, I myself am making big turns, to leave a margin of about 2 metres from each edge so that others behind can overtake me on the outside. When I will others, especially beginners, I have passed this idea on to them.

Does that make sense?

Anyway, I am fortunate not to have had any big crashes yet.

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Forgive my ignorance here FT - where does it say that I have to look uphill before changing my line? It says that upon entering a course, look uphill. I will say that looking up hill might help avoid collisions, but its still the responsibility of the person uphill to adjust accordingly - even stop if need be. Been there, done that with folks below me who have turned in my direction but the rules still say they have the right of way. There are no "if's". Its a straight and simple rule.

 

The bottom line is, that unless we are willing to build our own private ski resort, we have to share the slopes with everyone of all levels and if that means we have to slow down to a safe speed occasionally, then so be it. Like I said before, if not, the only other choice is to get off the slopes.

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EXACTLY, RayInJapan.

 

But actually, it's worse than that - FT and others are suggesting that you should look uphill not only if you change your line, but simply if you do wide turns.

 

Not only is this not in the code, it's not possible when travelling fast, and would not help to avoid collisions anyway as it doesn't actually solve the problem of who has to give way.

 

Their argument leads to the conclusion that wide turns are simply NOT ALLOWED.

 

Or to put it another way, they want to be able to ride fast and not be blamed for crashing into people below them.

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Ok its not exactly in the code but read between the lines as its a basic outline.

 

merging without looking uphill or stoping in areas where people cant avoid you are no's.

 

Here is the thing I have the most trouble with in Japan. People downhill cutting a big turn or sideslip and thus now coming across the hill instead of down the hill. This has been my biggest problem.

 

For the most part I dont pull rippers down the hill unless there are scant amounts of people. If your pulling rippers down the hill with tons of people you are breaking the code anyways cause you cant possibily be in control.

 

Im sorry Ray but if your pulling a ripper down the snow your on the edge of your ability and again your riding that fine line thats in the code. When Im pulling a ripper I sometimes do shoulder check certain areas just in case.

 

The code is an outline that is so vague. Who decides that you are in control? If your having near misses your doing something wrong.

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I will be the first to admit that most of the time, I'm trying to be on the edge of being out of control. Being totally 100 percent within my limits is boring. Its that fear of getting hurt that gets the adrenaline flowing. Did I mention I crashed into a tree this weekend and almost broke my left arm? Took a few runs before I ducked back into the trees again, but by the end of the day, I was all into the trees and not coming out.

 

But when there are a lot of folks on the slopes, or the slopes are narrow, I do adjust my speed accordingly - already had 1 too many close calls that were probably my fault and I learned from them. I do not want to be the one who has to say I'm sorry (or worse).

 

But when the slopes are wide open (a good reason I usually choose slopes with fewer people when everyone else is on the more "popular" ones), then yes - I am balls to the walls on the edge of my limit...

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Amen Ray thats what its all about, pushing yourself. Remember the soon to be new member of the family will want a father with an arm though.

 

It all comes down to respect which is in the code do you respect those around you? At sunpeaks you get a 30 degree 2000 vert ripper with 3 people on it. You can do what you want. Happo mid day and its a struggle just not to be hit on some of the famous groomers.

 

Toque last weekend was the washout of all washouts.

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