Legion
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Posts posted by Legion
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Trees are very widely spaced. But you are very visible and patrol will chase you. Also the area is very very steep and cops a fair bit of wind so is really unstable and risky. Saw a few naturals especially lookers left of the top.
I'm quite well versed in snow safety, at a reasonably professional level (once). Me and one other have a lot of experience, like 3-4000 days between us. I don't do super dumb things by choice. I can make good routefinding and snow condition decisions. We carry all safety gear and I wear an ABS pack. I'm more likely to be super conservative than aggressive these days. Not 20 years old and bulletproof now. But I still have the ability to charge and love exploring when circumstances and terrain allow.
If I am trying to find an area that's interesting I'm more likely to be interested in long lines top to bottom than little 50m stashes between runs. E.g. in Europe I'm quite happy doing half day or longer trips into remote valleys. Quite comfortable touring and overnighting in huts, although I'm a little pampered these days and prefer a warm bed.
I'm not a big fan of the Japanese policies, and if it's all visible and frowned upon in Naeba then I'd save my slackcountry for Kagura. Just another thing to factor in.
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Don't take this the wrong way but it seems you are just wanting too much.
Not at all. I appreciate all the help, positive or negative. Finding a place is a delicate balancing act and involves compromise, for sure. That's part of the fun in choosing and we've never been (too) disappointed, even in lean European years. Japan is what it is and we can either appreciate that or decide to go elsewhere.
Personally I'm happy with tatami mats, a futon and a place to dump a suitcase, just need a ski room and be able to wax and do some minor maintenance and heat boots. Food I don't care, but enough that's not too out there (probably wouldn't eat horse or whale or fugu) and I'm good. Others in the group would probably appreciate a common room and some things to do after skiing without getting cabin fever. For me, it's all about the snow and skiing.
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Did you ever get to Sun Peaks in Kamloops? It's a real up and comer lately I've heard. It's on my shortlist of Canadian resorts to visit.
No, only done Fernie (and Island Lake) and WH20. Other members of the party have done Red and Kicking Horse as well. Red is interesting but a bit isolated to get to (like WH20). At Fernie we lived in town and hitched, but can't do that with kids. Same at WH20.
Sun Peaks and Silver Star are moderately interesting, but I'd do Revelstoke first. The BC double tax kind of sucks and makes it more expensive than you first think.
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Hmm, yeah, Naeba could work in combination with Yuzawa centre-of-town trips. And with the Dragondola for added interest linking Kagura. I'm also interested in the stuff the map doesn't show, like lines off the peak looker's right along the prominent ridgeline towards the Dragondola, and lines off the peak looker's left through the forests or along the ridge in the area of the two prominent creeks. Thick trees in the area or skiable?
The high tension powerline crossing the ski area is a nice aesthetic touch.
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No Whistler....??
I could have fun there and I have some contacts through TGR, but I'd choose other places first. Namely, Fernie, WH20, Revelstoke. On top of the expense of an overexploited resort, Aussies have long since passed novelty status (decades ago) and I don't want to add to the tally. Or so I hear. When we spent a couple of winters in Fernie, you could count Aussies on one hand (including us). Even the Scandis were few and far between. Mostly just Ontarians and locals. I know it's different now and I probably wouldn't go back but it was nice back then, when it was two bowls.
I did look at some interior B.C. and Montana resorts but they involve in the order of 50 hours travel time. I can't chuck the kids on greyhounds after an international flight, it's just not happening.
What you are after doesnt exist in Japan.
That's what I fear.
For me after this year i have found that yuzawa and Kagura and Hakkaisan (need to duck ropes) is the best combination of a great town and awesome uncrowded skiing with deep deep pow. But you have to drive to the resorts.Rope ducking is something I will do myself but I'm not taking kids under ropes unless it's sanctioned (Europe style).
Nozawa is the only resort that really ticks all of your boxes, but that is getting busier year on year.Yeah, I thought it was a lucky good choice the first time. I will keep it in consideration.
Tsugaike Kogen
Thanks! It's second choice only to Mt. Granview.
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I don't mind a few countrymen walking around, but I prefer not to encounter hordes of drunken foreigners. Places where those hordes congregate the locals are often bitter and cynical towards them too. And the foreign ownership of Niseko businesses and Australian prices for everything, well, I'd rather look elsewhere. I'm sure I'd enjoy it but I'd prefer not to spend my money there if there are other options.
I'll look again at Shiga Kogen area and see if there's anything. I haven't considered it for years.
Other desirable (but not typically offered in Japan) qualities: long term discounts, ability to cook own meals about half the time to save money.
Don't care qualities: nightlife in terms of drinking etc. Purely interested in skiing. Things like monkeys, temples, day trips to cultural sites are desirable to some in the party if the weather sucks. Onsens played a big part in our other trip just because they are so awesome to start and finish a day but not 100% essential.
Places I've enjoyed: Fernie, Nozawa, Whitewater, many no-name places in Austria and Switzerland and France.
Places I wouldn't enjoy: Mt Granview (sorry), that 50m long indoor ski hill I visited in Belgium as a novelty one spring, Whistler/Blackcomb, most places in Colorado, most places in California, Jackson (too busy), St. Anton (too competitive)
Places I'd like if they were easier to get to and/or had accommodation slopeside and/or I could afford: Grand Targhee, Revelstoke, Whitefish, the Japanese places I listed earlier (maybe), Whitewater, Fernie, Lech, Europe (if the snow were reliable)
The culture thing isn't that important, but if possible I'd prefer onsens and temples and local villagers over one or two towers and/or Prince hotels dominating the landscape and nothing else.
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The obvious one is Niseko but I guess you have reasons for not going there.
I'm from Oz. Same reason I've never really considered Whistler. Plenty of cheaper options that are still awesome and not swarming with fellow countrymen.
Furano would be good but for the ropes issue....although Haven't they relaxed that in recent seasons?That sounds more interesting ...
It's a big downfall compared to Europe, the sidecountry access. My kids are old enough and skilled enough to start learning easy slackcountry but I don't want to upset patrollers taking a group of a half dozen under ropes. I'm good at stealth alone though ...
Europe's don't-care attitude or even North America's bomb everything to bits policies are world's ahead of Japan's restrictions.
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It will be hard to find a place with both town and lifts in walking distance. Would you be willing to stay slopeside, and have to drive into town?
We'd be willing to use public transport but would prefer not to rent a car for a month when it would go largely unused and not fit everyone if we wanted to go somewhere anyway.
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Akakan and Akakura Onsen certainly is not enough to keep you interested for a month. There are shuttles to Suginohara and Ikenotaira to keep things interesting. There isn't really much of a town either.
I mean, we could do that. Be based in Akakan and day trip. It seems like with most places in Japan a few more lifts with a bit more elevation at the top, link the whole area and it would be great. But that's not how it's done there.
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Are you looking to just be able to walk to the lift every morning?
Yeah, that's the problem. With kids and a big group not everyone wants to go bell-to-bell like me and one other. And we'll do touring, slackcountry, backcountry quite happily whereas others might want to lap lifts. So we can all end up going home differently and it's great if kids can just go home and chill by themselves.
I look at Yuzawa Kogen and see lots of lines under the lift above the village. I see lots of lines off Naeba. I see potential off Ishiuchi. I could definitely stay entertained at Happo One but it seems that competition is high and most people don't stay ski in/out. I could go crazy in Hakuba for several seasons as a single ski bum but not in a group.
Last Europe trip we had 1300m vertical, ski in/out, great village and relatively easy to get to. We got very lucky with snow, but that's not always the case, hence feeling the pull of Japan again.
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Yeah, Yuzawa looks OK. The train station kind of dominates and it has a couple of towers and the Kan-etsu so it's ugly. But there or the other end of the Yuzawa area, Ishiuchi Maruyama, look OK. Still not an alpine village. And getting in taxis/buses/rental cars gets tiring quickly with a group of 10 including kids. Just doesn't work. So it would have to be slopeside.
Low rise, a supermarket or two, handful of restaurants, great skiing.
Zao seemed to have the cultural thing, onsens, history, atmosphere.
I'm used to small farming villages with long ski histories and dirt cheap. North America doesn't do it too well either apart from some Coloradan and British Columbian places. And when they do, you usually pay for the privilege.
As I say, Nozawa town was great. Ski hill was great too. Snow was great. Onsens were great. But by the end we were lapping a few lines pretty much continuously (not the most common ones) and there really wasn't a lot more to discover. I'm comfortable exploring but even then ...
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I've been to Nozawa Onsen before. Looking for somewhere different. My criteria are different to most snowjapanforum natives.
- advanced to expert in the group
- biggish ski hill
- village infrastructure
- place to stay for a month without constant travelling around
- kids, so want to be able to walk/ski to lifts/slopes
- liberal ropes policy
There are plenty of interesting looking hills around, but Japan has the 80s legacy thing with zero atmosphere or zero town. So that automatically rules out otherwise potentially interesting places like Kagura, Naeba, Yuzawa, Joetsu Kokusai.
Akakan/Akakura Onsen looks OKish, but is it enough to stay interesting.
Europe ticks all the boxes except snow and lack of onsens but that's where we've been last few trips. Really, it's perfect except for the snow. Interesting mountains, great lift infrastructure, 100s of small villages with atmosphere and supermarkets, easy to get to, dirt cheap to live if you look around.
America's OK but the most interesting places are hard to get to and we'd blow a few days getting there. Plus, TSA won't like my ABS gear.
But we'd like to do Japan again. Nozawa was great, but I think another month there would be pushing it. There are only so many times you can do the same lines.
Zao looks OK, but a bit small and no hidden options. But the town has what it needs.
Hakuba valley has options, but it's so spread out.
What we usually do is find a hidden gem and buy a season pass and stay there. Easy done in some places but I can't find any in Japan. Does such a place exist?
Not interested in Niseko.
Mt Granview?
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Not cheeky. It would've saved a lot of cash, but I prefer to ski at a slightly different level than my son. As it was the kids were in ski school for 11 days out of ~25, so we did ski with them a lot. I taught skiing for many years so I'm a bit over it now. Next time I'll probably take the eldest out of ski school. We like ski school to give us some free time to ski, but also obviously teach them good skills.
For reference, Uenotaira is flat, so flat that you barely pick up speed while going straight the whole way (if you go straight the whole way you still have to skate to get back to the lift). Challenge is the steepest inbounds area on the mountain. Yamabiko is right up the top and has good introductory offpiste. So for a kid who can ski the steepest runs and moderate offpiste, putting them on a flat run is kind of a waste of everyone's time and money. It was just disappointing when we'd pick them up after ski school and they'd say they spent the session on Uenotaira when you'd expect them to be taken on the steeps or in ungroomed stuff.
SJ#1, they just need to deal with information a bit better. E.g. I had a 3 year old daughter in ski school. She can ski well for her age (red runs no problem, easy blacks OK). But officially under 5s are supposed to only do 1/2 days and usually only mess around on the flats down at the bottom. I got the message across early in the holiday that she didn't fit into the existing classifications and that was OK. But each morning or every few mornings a different person would be organising things and she'd get shunted off to the baby groups. So then I'd have to explain the whole situation again, to the instructors outside and to the office staff inside. This happened on at least 4 different occasions. There was a guy in the office who was aware of the situation (Japanese-Australian guy with long hair working the desk), but with new instructors outside every day we had to go through the same process again and again. I don't know a solution, other than continuity of instructors (or at least supervisors) and maybe offering multi-day course options (same applies to discounts for long term visitors). And they need a more challenging classification test.
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We just had our kids in about 11 days worth of lessons in Nozawa. We paid for regular ski school and in quiet periods they'd end up with a private lesson anyway (often 1 on 1, sometimes 2 kids with 1 instructor). They recommend private lessons for language purposes and we saw lots of people doing it, but it seemed unnecessary for the most part. In particular kids learn by watching and doing more than listening so it's maybe less of a problem for them.
The thing I didn't like about the Nozawa ski school is it was hard to negotiate a discount for longer term bookings (1 day rate the same as 1 week). And also the children had to do the same boring test every day that often involved a 10m ski down an almost flat slope followed by a snowplow stop. Our eldest would ski alone on the steep bumps adjacent to the ski school before class then have to do this irrelevant test every single day?! The main problem was continuity of instructors. I don't know what they do with them but they seem to recycle instructors so every week there was a fresh batch in the children's ski school right up to the supervisor. As a result (and in conjunction with the weak test) they couldn't properly assess our kids so they'd end up wasting half the morning before the instructor sorted out the group's ability level. We often had the eldest skiing Uenotaira when he (and the youngest) could easily ski Yamabiko or Challenge. I've never seen a ski school run like this before (and I've instructed in Europe and Canada and know a bit about how other countries run ski schools). It could do with a bit of an organisational revamp. At least a more involved test and some achievement/grading system so the next days' instructors could see what level students they were dealing with. </rant over>
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It costs that much in Austria because it's a ~100 day course at ~10,000 yen a day. So not only do you have to figure in the cost of the course, you have to figure in the lost income from a whole season.
The other issue is getting in to the course in the first place. When I did Level 2 (~100,000 yen) there were 400 applicants trying out for 100 places. Apparently for the Level 3 they get more like a 10 to 1 ratio of applicants to places. So you have to be pretty good to get through the 2 day tryouts.
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Costs roughly that much to get your Level 3 in Austria. It doesn't increase your pay that much, but what it does allow is to become a stakeholder in a ski school. I.e. you're allowed to become like a shareholder in the ski school and at the end of the season profits are distributed among the stakeholders. Lower levels don't get that opportunity. Depending on the ski school you can make a tidy sum out of it.
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Well, I currently use Trekkers so in comparison:Quote:Originally posted by Fattwins:
the duke is not really for touring so just dont buy it. Ive seen them up close and although I want them they dont do things well for touring.
Surely Trekkers are worse.Quote:Originally posted by Fattwins:
they skin worse then any other touring binding
Same with Trekkers.Quote:Originally posted by Fattwins:
you must click out of the binding to tour.
Can't you just bend a knee like a tele turn and put it down while your heel is raised. Not so easy on a steep traverse but is it possible?Quote:Originally posted by Fattwins:
the heel lift is pretty crap you cant get it to go down without un clicking.
Don't know but I can believe that.Quote:Originally posted by Fattwins:
Snow in the unit is a pain I watched a guy deal with it gloves off for 5 mins.
Don't know - haven't heard that before.Quote:Originally posted by Fattwins:
The brakes snap very easy. -
I really want Dukes. Problem is finding a pair. They're going to be perfect for my needs.
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You should join up and contribute. We could always use more Japan info and girls' perspectives.Quote:Originally posted by eskimobasecamp:
[QB... if you want to see a real forum full of BC stoke check here..... http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/ ...[/QB] -
Slooow pitch.Quote:Originally posted by WantToSki:
"... think of it like your girlfriend - handle it gently..." -
I thought Chris Owens owned CPG?
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I see no problem with your pit location, except it's not really representative of the slope below (from the picture anyway) so compression and/or rutschblock tests might not be as accurate as lower down. But to get an idea of layering or do a shear test, sure.
If other people's pits bother you, surely the 100+ tracks would bother you too. Maybe it's time to find a less popular area or get up earlier.
I feel no responsibility towards filling in my pits, although I do a quick job as mentioned. In terms of backcountry etiquette, I'm far more concerned with (a) other people causing me danger by dropping in above me (like in the picture) and (
people postholing skintracks, which I will always tell people off about. I don't even care if I see people with no gear, although I'll avoid them so if something happens I don't have to waste time probing for them if they've got no transceiver (I know some people get very bothered to see others without gear).Pits will generally be up the top of a slope so you can see them and avoid them before you're going too fast. If someone dug one halfway down a slope or near the bottom and I hit it, sure I'd be upset, but what's the point of digging a pit down there?
To me, the pit thing is a non-issue. Fill it in or leave it, I personally don't care.
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I thought you were joking but apparently not. You guys must be slow diggers. That's a pretty small pit that wouldn't take the pit digger more than 5-10min alone.Quote:Originally posted by montoya:
my two cents: it was not fun cleaning up that pit on Sunday, took us 15 minutes among 3 people. please use more common sense next time.
And I usually try to pick a location that's not likely to be skied. E.g. I wouldn't dig a pit in the middle of a prime chute or slope. I'd pick a spot above or below a rock or tree, as close as possible to a representative depth (i.e. not so close that you're over shallow rocks). That way you can leave your pit and no-one should ever ski into it. -
Same thing will happen to a lesser extent with a shaded pit exposed to air. E.g. right down at the ground interface is usually 0°C, right? Well say it was -10°C or -20°C air temperature when you dug the pit. That's a big difference you're exposing the snow down there to from it's insulated (buried) state. It won't change instantly, but it will change fairly rapidly. The sun on a south facing slope is the most obvious though - the next day it'll probably be melted then refrozen to a wall of ice.
Destination suggestions
in Snow talk, trip reports, Japan avalanche & backcountry
Posted
Wasting time and came across stuff like this:
You could stay very busy off either of those two gondys, if you were allowed by conditions and regulations. Enough to stay entertained for quite some time and both areas funnel back into the resort bounds. Looker's left off the ridge is the sketchiest but even then maps indicate it should be possible to pick a safe route in the worst conditions that would still come back to base. But I guess the easiest way to cater for the lowest common denominator is to forbid access entirely.